by Peggy Robin
We're now at our fourth category, BEST LONG DISCUSSION THREAD, which calls for a bit of explanation, before we get started. I've put it in the familiar internet format of an FAQ --
Q. How long does a discussion thread have to be to qualify for a nomination in this category?
A. At least six messages long.
Q. How many posters are required for the thread to count as a "discussion" (rather than, say, a "dialog" or an "exchange of views)"?
A. At least four unique posters.
Q. Are there any limits on subject matter to be considered for nomination in this category?
A. Yes, we've decided that the topic can't be something that's been up for a Listy in years past. So you won't see a nomination for any of the following: The development of the Cleveland Park retail strip; zoning and housing policy; bad mail delivery; or bad driving/bad road configurations. This year we're looking for fresher fare,
Q.Let's say there are ten posters or more in the thread: Who gets to take home the Listy?
A. There are three possibilities here: It could be the poster who introduced the thread, or it could be the poster who, in our view, made the best points during the discussion, or finally, the poster with a memorable turn of phrase or graceful expression in their writing. It's a judgment call by the Moderator and MAP (that's the Moderator's Advisory Panel, a motley crew of frends and family members who help me select the nominees).
And now here are the nominations for the 2025 Listy for BEST LONG DISCUSSION THREAD:
1. The Bench!
15 messages posted November 14-19.
Cassandra H. kicked it off on November 14 with Message #231040:
Please welcome "Flow," the first of four new benches coming to Cleveland Park! This bench was commissioned by Cleveland Park Main Street, thanks to a grant from DSLBD, and designed by UDC Graduate Allura Rayford under the tutelage of her Professor Davide Prete.
Within minutes posters weighed in; some loved it, some hated it, some liked the look of it but worried about practical things, like getting up without the help of a handrail. Here's a fair sampling of opinion:
The bench is a uniquely designed, beautifully crafted work of art. We are blessed to have such an exquisite piece of art to view and interact with daily. Bravi to all involved!. It's absolutely inspiring! [Paula S.]
Semi-interesting as an art piece, but furniture? Not so much. How about thinking ‘functional’? ‘Ergonomic’? [Needs a] back rest. [Randi S.]
The benches seem to be putting novelty of design above usability....In addition to having no hand rails to help people rise, half the bench has no back. How's that for comfort? People will sit for a short time and jump up for relief. [Carren K.]
Absolutely love this bench! I have yet to see it in person, but it looks quite versatile in addition to being uniquely beautiful. Form & function. [Jon H.]
Will we get up with stripes on our bare legs? Are the benches wooden? Actually, style-wise, the same type of metal benches as on the west side of that block would be more suitable. [Steph G.]
The final word in the thread came from a poster who actually went out and sat in it for a while. Linda A. reports:
Neighbors,
I went to see the new bench today and tried it out. Beautiful and comfy. I can’t wait to see the others that are coming..... Hurrah for Cassandra and our Main Street!
Not only does Linda A. get the final word in the discussion [Message #231235 on November 19], but because she tried out the bench herself before venturing her opinion, she is our nominee for this thread, who will take home the Listy if this one wins in its category.
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2. That Darned Spotted Lanternfly!
Katy W. began the discussion Spotted lanternfly in Cleveland Park with this observation:
Neighbors,
Over the past few days, we have seen quite a number of the invasive spotted lanternfly nymphs on the Klingle Valley Bridge -- we have been squashing them as best we can,
Kate M. chimed in with a caution against the use of pesticides, with the memorable rhyme, "Squish away, but hold the spray." [June 28, Message #226663] -- then she adds:
If needed, UMD Extension advises using netting to protect grape and other fruit crops until harvest rather than spraying.
The good news is that resident wildlife, birds and other predators have adapted to this introduction, and are preying on it. Per Mike Raupp UMD’s Bug Guy, the SLF tide seems to be turning due to resident wildlife, etc., that is, predator/prey dynamics: https://tinyurl.com/mr3v9xth. It will take awhile for the predator populations to catch up to the abundance of prey, so squishing is helpful. It will take much longer for the predator populations to catch up, if they can, if we spray.
Keith K. noted that's it's not easy to get'em:
We do our best to squash them….but they’re unexpectedly wily! [June 27, #226633 ]
Danna M. in Message #226981 on July 8 says a productive approach is to get rid of the invasive species of tree that the lanternflies like best:
Yes, crush those little demons whenever you can, but they are quick jumpers! Keep in mind there's another important, pro-active, pay-it-forward action you take, and that relates to their preferred host plant, invasive Tree of Heaven: Rip it out and kill it!
This article shares good insights on the problem - https://51st.news/dc-spotted-lantern-flies-summer-tree-of-heaven-growth/
[Message continues with more info about the Tree of Heaven, including a photo -- see Message #226981]
Bonita C. let us know that we could add to the data being collected by the DC government's Urban Forestry Division:
Spotted many in various stages on a railing in front of a magnolia at the Zoo. Just reported it to UFADDOT@dc.gov. Already received a thank you. Plan to go over and report to a gardener there. My inner child just might attempt to capture them.
But the one that I think truly speaks to those of us who want to protect our environment from the depredations of these spotted, flying interlopers is this account of her personal battle with the invaders, posted by Rosa K on June 28, Message #226675:
I live on the 14th floor of a high-rise building in Wesley Heights. I have a balcony where I keep several flower pots and I also have 3 small and one medium size pots with lemon trees that I started from the seeds of one lemon.
Over the last few weeks I have been seeing lanternfly nymphs usually on the bark of these young lemon trees and often on the concrete floor of the balcony. Most of the nymphs had been on the early stage but in the last two days I’ve also been seeing nymphs on the later stage.
Just today I 'took care' of 3 nymphs in the morning, 2 mid-day and 4 in the early evening; a couple managed to escape my flipflop. Those things jump long distances!
So the nom for the Listy in this thread goes to the intrepid lanternfly warrior, Rosa K. wielding a mighty flipflop!
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3. "Secret Service" -- The Gordon Ramsey Reality TV Show about The Parthenon Restaurant
36 messages in all:, 4 during the filming in March: 32 after the show aired on May 22
[If you'd like to watch the show before you read Listserv members' reactions, go here:
The first mention of this subject came up on March 1st with four messages posted about the mystery filiming of a reality TV show in the 5500 block of Connecticut Avenue. The subject of the filming was eventually identified as the Parthenon Restaurant - and that was it for the next two and a half months. But as soon as the show was aired -- May 22 -- the floodgates were unleashed. Thirty-two messages in the space of a few days! Zowie!
This topic beats everything else, if you go by quantity alone. That's perhaps to be expected when you take a beloved local institution (this familly-run Greek Restaurant, a neighborhood standby in Chevy Chase DC for over 30 years) and install hidden cameras to expose all its flaws and failings. Who can forget those brazen, scampering rats! And I'm not talking Ratatouille-style singing rodents with a love of good food. Then, following the take-down, someone swoops in and shake everything up, so much that by the time they're done, the ancient but iconic Parthenon is demolished and then reemerges in 21st Century guise. And who's the someone behind this metamorphosis? An acid-tongued, globe-trotting celebrity chef/mega-restauraeur & TV star, Gordon Ramsay.
Reactions were all over the map:
Beth M.:
Based on the initial comments about the Parthenon, I wondered if I should cancel my reservation. I am very glad I did not do that. Yes the menu is smaller but it has plenty of options and everything we had was excellent. The other night other friends went and had a similar experience. The decor is beautiful and very appropriate for a Greek restaurant. So all in all, I think the Parthenon is still a wonderful family owned restaurant and I hope the community continues to support it.
Lynn H.:
Last night, I dined at the Parthenon [https://parthenondc.com/ ], newly "redone" after a visit from Gordon Ramsay. Impressions: the decor is reminiscent of the dining room at a nursing home. The bare blond wood tables, the green hard chairs, the unforgiving lighting are not an improvement. The service was OK, the food just a notch above OK. On the plus side, the staff was cordial.
Carolyn & Doug:
My husband and I have been going to the Parthenon for decades. It's our old familiar place for comfort food, especially in cold weather. We like the new murals, and don't find them to be "reminiscent of the dining room at a nursing home." It didn't look to us as though the "bare blond wood tables" and the "green hard chairs" were any different from what was there before. The service was prompt and friendly, much better than "OK."....
Cindy S.:
I also like the new murals and I actually think the “new Parthenon” looks brighter and more inviting. The smaller dining room has a much cozier feel. ... The small plate options are extremely good. The shrimp dish is my favorite. If you love their eggplant — so delicious — it’s now in the small plates section.
Carolyn L.:
I thought that video of the “visit” by Gordon Ramsey was unspeakably disrespectful and cruel. I’ve never seen him on TV and I’ll certainly avoid ever seeing him again. But I wonder how much damage he’s done to this neighborhood treasure?
Susan M.:
This is SO sad. Can’t something be done? Does anyone know the owners so we can urge them to restore the old menu? The swordfish was always so delicious. Now, my husband and I are dreading going back to try Parthenon after the “renovation.”
Lois D.
Chef Ramsey is always mean-spirited. Anyone who has seen his shows over the years is aware of his demeanor. Bolt the door if he wants to enter, and don’t patronize his restaurants.
Judy K.
The show brought tears to my eyes throughout the entire episode. It was sad to watch the family dynamics of the Greek father (owner) constantly hovering over his 45-year-old son, who is one of two chefs in the kitchen. It was disgusting to look at the lack of cleanliness of most of the equipment, with huge amounts of growing bacteria shown in Ramsay’s on-site testing. An overnight camera that he hid in the basement showed five rats scurrying around....
So whose vision of the "reality" in this reality TV show iis the one to represent this thread as the nominee in this category? Which one of our 25+ posters should take home the golden statuette, should this long and perhaps overheated discussion win its category?
We're going with this post by Linda S., who succinctly sums up the meaning of being "Ramsayed""
When a restaurant agrees to being given the Ramsay treatment, it accepts the tradeoff between the issues that will be revealed and the perks/free publicity that go along with being “Ramsayed”. Contracts are signed and the owners are aware of the risk vs benefit in getting large exposure on a reality TV show. Ramsay’s style is harsh, but he spent a lot of the show working with the family dynamic, even engaging in a sort of therapy with them, at times mean-spirited. It’s very much what his shows are like. It’s hard to imagine the family was blind-sided....
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4. Where are the robins?
11 messages starting with Message #231249 on November 20:
 |
| [Robin photo for illustration purposes only - not a photo taken by a list member] |
Our holly trees are still filled with berries. Where are the robins who usually would have eaten them all by now? Has anyone else noticed their absence?
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Karen D. wondered:
Could it be that the crows are overwhelming the neighborhood again? They had back in the early 2000s & the Forest Service stepped in. Don’t want to know exactly what their approach was, but soon there were many fewer crows, and the robin, blue jay, cardinal & other small bird populations bounced back pretty fast.
It seems they're not entirely absent. Maggie S. wrote:
I saw one (1) [!!!] yesterday at Van Ness by Howard Law under a pine tree... Call me surprised.
It's not just robins that are scarce. Michele W. commented on a general shortage in the feathered-friend department:
I have a bird bath that for years has been a popular spot for birds, even in the fall and winter. But for the past few months, there have hardly been any birds stopping by to use it. I have no idea why this has happened. At least the squirrels are still drinking from it (they get to it from the nearby tree), but I’d love to see some birds again.
Vera M. blames the neighborhood hawk:
I have fed my bird friends for years and they disappeared around mid-summer. Cardinals, blue jays, robins, juncos, catbirds, and even starlings are gone. I had five regular doves and now there are two and 5 squirrels. That's all! (Oh, and a bunch of sparrows.) The neighborhood hawk stops by from time to time but he is probably not bothered by crows.
But Margery G. knows who's really to blame....
I have noticed the same thing. I have a lot of holly trees filled with berries. Every fall the birds eat the berries and poop them out on my large white propane tank art bench to the extent that every day it looks like a Jackson Pollack painting. This fall, not one drop. All the berries are still on the trees. Maybe Trump scared them all away!
But do not despair. As the poet said, "Hope is the thing with feathers." And on December 5, it returned to DC, as Susie B. gleefully informed us: (Message #231707 ):
The robins have arrived at last, and are busy munching on the berries on my American holly as snow falls on the garden. Lovely!
And the nomination goes to.....the poster with the memorably artistic interpretation of the chaotic pattern of droppings that prove the birds have indeed graced us with their presence. Our nominee in this category, Margery G. wrote:
Every fall the birds eat the berries and poop them out on my large white propane tank art bench to the extent that every day it looks like a Jackson Pollack painting.
We only wish she had sent in a photo of the poop-bespattered bench. Surely it would have been worthy of a nomination for Photo of the Year!
UPDATE: Three more messages on this thread have come in since the nomination was posted on December 7. All three have happily confirmed the December 5 observation that "The robins are back!" Arlene H. crowed: "Fat robins have been swooping around my holly berries this morning and yesterday, ate them all."
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5. Daughter stopped by uniformed men.
18 messages between September 2 - 3.
Terri S. reported this incident on September 2, Message #228524):
My Nicaraguan born daughter --a US citizen-- was stopped by two armed uniformed men at the gas station at Calvert and Wisconsin as she walked home. They told her she "did not look like a citizen." Fortunately she was able to show them a copy of her passport and her "real ID." If that's not racial profiling I don't know what is.
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Seventeen posters joined the discussion: some offering words of sympathy; a few others who had observed similar incidents; a couple of posters with practical advice; and a few more writing of their growing sense of anger and frustration over this new and frightening state of affairs.
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Michael P. wrote:
OMG - more horribleness. It’s quite pathetic these things are happening and thank god she had her ID on her. Hope she was not too scared
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Mary D. wrote:
I am so sorry to hear this! Tell your daughter that I am angry that she was treated that way by the "bad people." Please let me know if I can do anything to ease any fear she may have. Glover Park has her back!!! Happy to buy her a burger or welcome her and you to my garden or patio anytime you want if you need community and talk.
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Carter D. had this useful tip:
Check out the ICEblock app that was recently created to provide real-time location of ICE officers and other federal officers. It is available in the App Store https://www.iceblock.app/ (See caution about downloading fakes at https://www.iceblock.app/android). We have to keep ourselves, our neighbors, and our community safe.
...And then he followed up with some guidance about when to call to report ICE activity:
Regarding reporting ICE activity and other federal officers:
Friends, there are a *lot* of federal agents out in our communities right now. Our allies at Migrants Solidarity Mutual Aid, who run the ICE hotline, are getting overwhelmed and are asking everyone for this help:
• 📞 Call the hotline only if it’s an active ICE/federal enforcement situation.
• 📲 Text the hotline if it’s just a sighting.
The hotline number for either calls or texts is (202) 335-1183. This will help keep lines open for urgent intake calls from families of detained community members and accompaniment requests. Thank you for helping us keep the hotline running smoothly!
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Lois F. let everyone know that WaPo was seeking stories like hers:
The Washington Post is looking for tips on how DC residents are being affected. Your daughter's story is important to share as it lays bare the bigotry (and ignorance) of the folks sent to "clean up" DC. I'm sorry this happened to her.
No question in this case that the nomination belongs to the original poster, Terri S. -- and if she ends up with the Listy for BEST LONG DISCUSSION, we'll give one to her daughter, too!
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Stay tuned! The 2025 Cleveland Park Listies will be back next weekend with more nominations. The next two categoies will be BEST GIVEAWAY and POSTER OF THE YEAR. This year these two awards are related, and so both will be posted on the same day, Saturday, December 13.
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